If I were to celebrate Beltane, what would be the proper night to do it?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: when is Beltane?
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 4:14 AMNeopagan calendar date: May 1 (Celtic day starts at dusk, so Beltaine night is April 30)
Neopagan astrological (cross quarters): May 5 (night of May 4)
traditional calendar (according to Ray White's reconstruction of the Coligny calendar): May 15 (night of May 14)
traditional astrological (best guess): May 16 (night of May 15) -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 12:05 PMso when would be the most appropriate time? it's hard to decide which calendar to go by--which is most accurate. also, where did you find that info? =) thanks!! -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 3:00 PM"so when would be the most appropriate time? it's hard to decide which calendar to go by--which is most accurate. also, where did you find that info? =) thanks!!"
They all have their problems.
The neopagan calendar date is the date going by the modern Gregorian calendar. The Celts didn't use a solar calendar at all, let alone the Gregorian calendar, so it's pretty much entirely arbitrary.
The neopagan astrological date is the day when the Sun is at 15 degrees of Taurus, exactly halfway between the spring equinox and the summer solstice. It has the benefit of not being entirely arbitrary, and its placement is satisfying to those who are into the 'wheel turning' symbolism of the ritual year--you can get the date from any astrological ephemeris. But there is no evidence that the Celts calculated the day that way--no evidence that they used the Sun to time any festivals at all.
The traditional calendar date is the date of the first day of the summer half of the year according to Ray White's reconstruction of the Coligny calendar. You can find the calendar online here: www.technovate.org/web/coligny.htm
If it's not working, there is also a downloadable version. The Coligny calendar has the benefit of being a genuine ancient Celtic lunar calendar, but there is no way to tell if it is synchronized with the original Coligny calendar because it's 'start date' was arbitrary.
The traditional astrological date is actually no more than a guess based on what is known about Celtic practices (that Beltaine is one of the 2 days that divide the Celtic year into a winter half and a summer half, and that Celtic reckoning of time always starts units at the beginning of the darkness--the day begins at dusk, the month at the new moon, and the year at the beginning of winter). By this reckoning, the date is the new moon when the Sun is in Taurus--you can find it in any astrological ephemeris. There is no direct evidence that the Celts used this day either. The bottom line is that nobody really knows precisely how the druids determined the day. -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Sat, April 21, 2007 - 8:14 PMso when would you personally celebrate it? Which do you think is the most appropriate? Just curious about your personal perspective. =) -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Sat, April 21, 2007 - 9:53 PM"so when would you personally celebrate it? Which do you think is the most appropriate? Just curious about your personal perspective. =)"
My own preference is for the last method. The Summer half of the year should (for me at least) begin at the beginning of a month, and the month should be born with the Moon. Which new moon to choose is more difficult, but choosing the one when the Sun is in Taurus should make the timing pretty much right for a pastoral festival celebrating the driving of the cattle out to summer pastures. Someone with a better grasp of Hindu astrology might be able to refine that since the Celtic astrologers seem to have used a system of 27 lunar mansions (like Hindu astrologers) rather than the system we are familiar with in the west -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Sun, April 22, 2007 - 8:39 AMLenny - I gotta say half of what you say is like greek to me, and the other half rather boring. ;-) But MAN - I am in awe of your knowledge and passion! Thank you so much for being willing to share what you've learned of this subject! And mostly - for NOT being condescending to those who perhaps want just an easy answer. -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Sun, April 22, 2007 - 7:55 PM"Lenny - I gotta say half of what you say is like greek to me, and the other half rather boring. ;-) But MAN - I am in awe of your knowledge and passion! Thank you so much for being willing to share what you've learned of this subject! And mostly - for NOT being condescending to those who perhaps want just an easy answer"
Um...thanks...I think...
What day you choose probably depends on your philosophy. For some people, holy days are largely social (I celebrate Easter and Christmas with my family even though I'm not a Christian--it's as good an excuse as any to get together with the people you love). Some people are mindful of the religious context (perform rituals and such), but attach no specific magico-religious significance to the date as such--the magic is in the rituals, not the day. For some people it's important to try to recreate the ancient way as a sign of respect or a way of feeling connected to ancestors or a cultural heritage. For some people (almost certainly the ancient druids among them), there is a magical significance to the day itself, and great care must be taken to calculate or divine when it occurs. That's sort of how I feel about Samhaine--you can talk to the dead and celebrate their memory any day of the year, but there *is* a day when the veil between the worlds falls away--a time outside of time when the dead can walk unbidden among the living with ease. It is important (to me!) to know when that day is so that when they turn up, there is food and drink for them.
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Re: when is Beltane?
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 2:49 PMI had to join when I found this via google search (I was already a tribe member, but not this group). My input into the topic:
I use the lunar cycle for anything of importance to me spiritually. I use the 13 moon calendar for most purposes when I need specific clarity on dates falling one way or another into two divisions. I use the gergorian calendar as toilet paper - that's all it's good for.
Beltane is, to me, a celebration of fertility, new beginnings, the return of life to nature (in my area our first green buds are just now peeking out), and cleansing/blessing by fire. Now, here's where things get interesting. Typically, choosing a date for any pagan holiday is kinda an arbitrary thing. BUT, this year at least, it appears that most of the various calendars and cycles are in agreement within a few days of one another. Gergorian says April 30/May 1, the 13 moon calendar has the new month at May 1/May 2, and the new moon is in 5 days. Now, for the bizarre too much info part. My cycle (being female) started today, and I have a 4-5 day period, meaning, my new cycle will fall exactly on new moon. Thus, my PERSONAL choice will be to celebrate Beltane on both the new moon cycle and my own cycle, which falls on Gergorian day May 5th. I will do ritual the night of May 5th, into the day of May 6th.
That's just me though, and I'm solitary, and very informal.
(though if there might be a willing partner to pair up for the night, I'm seeking one - No Scorpios, rising Scorpios or fire elementals, please! I'm a water element Libra, rising Capricorn, based in Vermont) -
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Re: when is Beltane?
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 3:35 PMCross-Posted in "Followers of the Celtic Way" Tribe, cuz they were talking about the same thing:
The nice thing about Sabbats nowadays is that there are many different ways of looking at the calendar. Also different traditions - and eons - have celebrated in different ways at different times.
So tonight yes, but in some areas tomorrow morning is the important time.
For my group it's always the closest Saturday, so May 3rd is our big public ritual.
But in my way of counting it is Sunday the 4th that is Beltane, for me, IMHO. That is the actual cross-quarter day between the Spring Equinox and the Summer Solstice. So I am leading an Energy Walk that morning to a lovely spot with meadows, big, gnarly old trees and a view of the entire Monterey Bay.
So happy day, however - and whenever - you spend it.
And play safe. ;-)
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Re: when is Beltane?
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:06 AMSee a lot of people have responded, I have always celebrated Beltane on the 5th of May, but that is just me. Quite a few of my pagan friends will hold a dance and party on the 1st, which I always happily attend :)
