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I would like to know how many people here pronounce the Gaelic word Samhain as Sam-Hayne.
You see, I had two events occur over the last month that really turned my head. First, I was teaching at a high school and one of the students, a self proclaimed wiccan, pronounced it in this way. I quickly corrected him, but he was insistent that, however it was pronounced during the medieval period, it was Sam-Hayne now. I replied that George Washington would never be called Gay-org Wass-Hinkton no matter how many centuries passed and we lapsed into a mutually respectful silence.
I would not have thought twice about this, but I observed in passing to a fellow member of tribe that the show Supernatural yet again promulgated the pronunciation 'Sam-Hayne'. The response I got was surprising. Apparently, most members of the neo-pagan movement - and I use the term in its broadest cultural sense - really do pronounce it this way, despite the fact that 'mh' only ever sounds liek a 'v' or 'w' and I have NEVER heard Samhain pronounced as 'Sowvin' - so I pronounce it in the same way as I have always heard it from native born speakers: Sow'in (as in the female pig + a little, terminal 'n').
Now I am neither making any claims to authenticity nor trying to say how anyone should speak or act. I really only want to hear some different perspectives on this. I mean, its original meaning was 'Summer's End' or something like it - a meaning utterly erased by misapprehending the 'mh' complex and splitting it into two distinct sounds (like pronouncing Ashley as Ass-h'ley).
Any words?
You see, I had two events occur over the last month that really turned my head. First, I was teaching at a high school and one of the students, a self proclaimed wiccan, pronounced it in this way. I quickly corrected him, but he was insistent that, however it was pronounced during the medieval period, it was Sam-Hayne now. I replied that George Washington would never be called Gay-org Wass-Hinkton no matter how many centuries passed and we lapsed into a mutually respectful silence.
I would not have thought twice about this, but I observed in passing to a fellow member of tribe that the show Supernatural yet again promulgated the pronunciation 'Sam-Hayne'. The response I got was surprising. Apparently, most members of the neo-pagan movement - and I use the term in its broadest cultural sense - really do pronounce it this way, despite the fact that 'mh' only ever sounds liek a 'v' or 'w' and I have NEVER heard Samhain pronounced as 'Sowvin' - so I pronounce it in the same way as I have always heard it from native born speakers: Sow'in (as in the female pig + a little, terminal 'n').
Now I am neither making any claims to authenticity nor trying to say how anyone should speak or act. I really only want to hear some different perspectives on this. I mean, its original meaning was 'Summer's End' or something like it - a meaning utterly erased by misapprehending the 'mh' complex and splitting it into two distinct sounds (like pronouncing Ashley as Ass-h'ley).
Any words?
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Re: Samuel Newspeech Hayne?
Wed, November 26, 2008 - 6:05 PMI think this debate is similar to the one about how to pronounce athame (is it ah-thah-may or ath-a-may?). Personally I've always pronounced Samhain as Sow-in primarily because when I learned it was the Gaelic pronunciation of the word I figured why mess with the "mother tongue" so to speak. Of course I'm also someone who firmly believes for herself that names need to be pronounced as native speakers do or not at all (I have quite a few international students in my classes who smile very gently and allow me to use their "American" names rather than mangling their language).
So - that's my experience and practice and two cents (or in this economy probably only a ha'penny *G*)
Peace,
Raven -
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Re: Samuel Newspeech Hayne?
Thu, November 27, 2008 - 7:00 AMI always figure that Gaelic is the anti-phonetics: How it looks is NEVER how it sounds. (Or as a co-worker at the witchy store put it: "Spelled 'horse', pronounced 'frog' - that's Gaelic for ya!")
So 'Sam-hayne' would be the lazy, phonetic way of sussing it out, which would be wrong. 'Sow'n' was the pronounciation I was taught.
Athame, of course, is trickier. I was taught 'uh-THAW-may', but I could see how 'ATH-a-may' might have some validity.
For the most part though, I don't get too hung up on this sort of stuff.
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