Have any of you ever pondered the subject of Celtic sexuality? Or wonder if it even exists? I know the concepts of sacred sexuality and sex magic, but recently I have become interested in the idea that maybe the Celts had particular views towards sexuality in general. Now, I am talking of pre-Christian Celts of course. Did sex or sexuality have any role in tribal Celtic society? Did it have any resonance in Druid magic? Do any of you have any suggestions or musings of your own to add to this question? Thanks.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Tue, March 13, 2007 - 1:26 PMI know from the stories left behind that the Morrigan and the Dagda had an exciting sexual encounter, She was standing on both sides of a stream, and He was busy at it while they both stood.
Beltaine, of course, provided for a sexual freedom, and it's highly probably that Lughnasa did as well. "Beltaine" handfastings usually lasted the Summer, and then it was decided if they wished to continue. Lughnasa handfastings were a bit longer lasting.
I'm sure the Celts had a whole body of sexual lore, much like a Kama Sutra. The theory that Celts and India have a connection is strong. It would seem highly unlikely that the Celts DIDN'T have some sort of sexual magics. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Thu, March 15, 2007 - 5:49 PMI imagine that the Celtic priesthood (druids both men and women) had some sort of structure and belief system built around sexuality but i've never seen it. At least not in anything close to a way as intact as something like Tantra. I make no claims to having looked extensively for it, but i imagine that since so much of that culture was broken by the catholics that if it did exist it might very well just not be availible to us anymore. It's a worthy search though.. let us know if you find anyhting good :) -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Thu, March 15, 2007 - 8:36 PM>make no claims to having looked extensively for it, but i imagine that since so much of that culture was broken by the catholics that if it did exist it might very well just not be available to us anymore.
Also, the Druid tradition was (pardon the expression) an oral one, nothing was written down. Even if the Catholics hadn't broken the culture down, hard to imagine any of it surviving. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 12:53 AMyah, that's the one downfall of ancient celtic culture, they were an oral people, so we really don't have much to research except for the oral traditions. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 12:50 PMSadly, it's true. The druids had discrete gesa (taboos) against writing things down. It's been widely speculated that they did so for proprietery reasons (to keep their knowledge and its sources a secret) and because of the basic fact that when things are written down, they are quickly forgotten (and woe to you and future generations if the written texts are lost!)
The formal training for druids lasted for updwards of 20 years, and all of it..vast law tracts, lore, ritual, poetry, etc. had to be committed to memory. Unfortunately, this all means that VERY little of their deep knowledge survives, except for that which we can glean from secondary and tertiary sources, many of which are Greco-Roman, archeological artifacts, and the information we can infer from the large body of celtic mythology, lore, poetry, and music that has survived. The latter is a dicey process at best and many contemporary Celticists choose to interpret such information conservatively. For example, the infamous Burning Man: The source of our knowledge is from Caesar during his Gaulish campaigns. He describes how a handful of criminals were placed in a large wicker man and set afire. Did they do this regularly? We cannot say with absolute certitude. We can only say that, given Caesar's reputation for honesty, that this particular band of continental Celts did it ONCE.
In terms of sexuality, there is at least one mention of it The Tain, as Coyote mentioned above. Besides that, I don't recall any other specific mention as to their sexual practices and mores :( If I find anything, I will certainly update this post. Cheers! -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 3:16 PMWhat we don't have are sources for an intellectual approach. What we do have are the very sources the ancient Druids had when developing their spirituality. Nothing is really "lost." Truth is in the moment, which is the overriding reason the Druids did not employ writing as we underestand it to any extent.
"In the moment" brings us back to sexuality, since the energy and heightened awareness there is a gateway to the eternal moment that underlies everything.
Blissings,
Peter -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, March 16, 2007 - 4:21 PMExcellent point, Peter. There was an unintended reconstructionist bias in my posting :) -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, March 30, 2007 - 4:25 PMHow about Good Ol' Queen Maeve and her many lovers. Sexual prowess was very important to the Celts. When Dagda wanted to make it with Boann (who just happened to be married to someone else) he sent the husband away for what was supposed to be just one night. Dagda put a spell on him to make him believe he was only gone one night but he was actually gone for the 9 months of Boann's pregnancy with Angus Og. In addition, there are stories that when Dagda would call a meeting to Tara of all the oher kings they were relunctant to bring their wives, afraid of Dagda's sexual appetites..
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 1:38 AM"Also, the Druid tradition was (pardon the expression) an oral one, nothing was written down. Even if the Catholics hadn't broken the culture down, hard to imagine any of it surviving."
Todd,
I can see your quandary here but would like to offer up such things as:
A Very Brief History of Druidry
by Philip Carr-Gomm 2001
The lineage of the Druid spiritual tradition can be traced across many thousands of years of time.
We see the first evidence of spiritual practice in Europe 25,000 years ago - when candidates for initiation would crawl into caves, such as those at Lascaux in France or Altamira in Spain, which are dramatically painted with figures of wild animals. After being initiated in the belly of Mother Earth, they were reborn into the light of day. Twenty thousand years later, in around 3000 BC, we can see the same practice of seeking rebirth within the Earth: great mounds were built, in which initiates would sit in darkness awaiting the time of their rebirth. The best example of this is found at New Grange in Ireland, where a shaft is oriented to the Winter Solstice sunrise, so that the dawn rays can bathe the initiate in sunlight after his or her vigil through the night. Four and a half thousand years later, in the sixteenth century, the key text of Druid spirituality, transcribed from the oral tradition by Christian clerics, talks of the spiritual and magical training of a Druid, in which he is eaten by a Goddess, enters her belly, and is reborn as the greatest poet in the land. So from over twenty thousand years ago to the sixteenth century, we see a common theme - which we find again in the training of Druids and poets in Scotland up until the seventeenth century. There, to awaken their creative genius, they were told to lie in darkness for days, and after this period of sensory deprivation, they were released into the brightness of the world.
This theme of seeking spiritual rebirth and creative expression through undergoing a simulated death-rebirth experience, runs like a golden thread of spiritual practice through the four major periods of history that relate to Celtic and Druid spirituality: The first is the prehistoric period: in which as the Ice Age retreats from Europe, tribes from many directions, including Spain and the steppes of Russia, move westwards towards Britain and Ireland. A megalith building culture develops, which raises great mounds like New Grange, and great circles of stone, like Stonehenge. They possess considerable knowledge of astronomy, have engineeering skills that we find hard to understand even today, and use Pythagorean mathematics to build their monuments, two thousand years before Pythagoras is born.
This period of pre- and then early Celticism gives way to the period of documented history, in which we can read about the Celts and Druids from the works of classical writers, such as Julius Caesar. We discover that the Celts had developed a highly sophisticated religious system, with three types of Druids: the Bards, who knew the songs and stories of the tribe, the Ovates, who were the healers and seers, and the Druids who were the philosophers, judges and teachers. During this time there was much cross-fertilisation between Celtic culture and that of Greece and Rome.
With the coming of Christianity, we enter the third period: in which the schools of the Bards became Christian schools, and continued to exist until the seventeenth century; and in which the Ovates became the village healers and midwifes; while the Druids remained as the intellectual elite, and mostly converted to Christianity. This period lasted for a thousand years: from the triumph of Christianity over all of Europe by the sixth century, to the sixteenth century. During this millennium, Celtic and Druid spirituality was preserved by the Christian clerics who performed the valuable service of recording many of the stories and myths by which the oral teachings of the Druids were conveyed. People who think that Druidry was destroyed with the coming of Christianity fail to understand the resilience of spiritual teachings when they are encoded in myths and stories: and it is thanks to the clerics’ recording of these tales that we are able to be inspired by them today. St Patrick also recorded all of the old Druid laws in Ireland - providing us with invaluable information on the ethics and social structure of pre-Christian Celtic culture.
The fourth period begins with the sixteenth century, when scholars in Europe ‘rediscovered’ the Druids, and then began to reclaim their
Celtic heritage. The Church had taught that we were savages until the arrival of Christianity. But with the translation and printing of the classical texts on the Druids, Europeans discovered that their ancestors were far from being savages. At the same time, reports were coming back from America of Native American people who, like their ancestors, had been untouched by Christianity, and yet were worthy of admiration. This provoked a period known as The Druid Revival in which groups and societies were formed to study Druidry and Celticism. The founding father of the science of archaeology, William Stukeley, formed a Druid society in London and appointed the Princess of Wales as its Patroness. Cultural festivals, incorporating Druid ceremonies, and celebrating Celtic languages, grew up in Wales, Cornwall and Brittany. And this period of Revival has never finished. Instead, it has developed into a Renaissance, as more and more people find within Druidry a living spirituality that holds all of Nature sacred, and that offers a path of creativity and freedom, rooted deep in ancient tradition.
www.druidry.org/obod/druid...istory.html
another set of links:
www.lighthousewoods.com/druid_...od.html
www.druidry.org/
Understand Todd, that this is not an argument and that I fully understand the loss of things, point of reference here the "telephone game" where things are not written down. At the same time, may not be wrote down in obvious fashion, but enough for one to known by passing of key terminology where to look. This is something that was not only done by Druids but also by Witches.
Amethyst -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 8:14 AMThank you for the knowledge nuggets! Fascinating post!
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 11:04 PMThe tantra I found to be true while leading ceremonies, is that as preistess i had a choice of three men (three: the Goddess channel--Ireland and Greece: Trismusgustus as the Greenman. The cinqufoil and the gargoile.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 1:29 AM"Beltaine, of course, provided for a sexual freedom, and it's highly probably that Lughnasa did as well. "Beltaine" handfastings usually lasted the Summer, and then it was decided if they wished to continue. Lughnasa handfastings were a bit longer lasting. "
I find your comments here interesting as a Hand-fasting is known to last a year and a day. Could you clarify for me that what you are saying that hand-fastings lasted from May to August or otherwise?
Amethyst -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sun, July 22, 2007 - 8:27 AMIt is my understanding...via Caitlin Matthews, Patricia Keneally Morrison, and other authors and scholars...that there were indeed many kind of handfastings allowed for in the Brehon laws. Of course they didn't call them handfastings. There was a handfasting for strictly politcal reasons, where each partner was allowed to have lovers, and not expected to to have sex except to produce an heir. There was the May handfasting, as I mentioned, usually around Beltane when the clans and tribes gathered to celebrate, May weddings would last the summer, and if at the end of summer the couple wished to continue their wedded bliss they could do so with yet another kind of handfasting. There is the year and a day handfasting, the life to life handfasting, and the til death do us part handfasting...
I'm sure there are others...those are the ones that I remember reading about.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sat, March 31, 2007 - 2:38 AMI was taught in the old ways to see God as love. An orgasm, the ultimate expression of love, is the most divine and powerful feeling anyone can have...hence it is Divine. It is seen as two worlds colliding...literally....merging into one. In this way, sexuality is individual and instinctual. Intimacy is a powerful ritual, and definitely magical.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Mon, April 30, 2007 - 10:03 AMFrom the books I've gleaned, none speak of this implicitely,
however, the theme of Love comes over and over again.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 1:40 AM"From the books I've gleaned, none speak of this implicitely,
however, the theme of Love comes over and over again. "
This matches the saying "all paths lead to the same end"
Amethyst
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Unsu...
Re: Celtic Sexuality
Thu, May 17, 2007 - 8:56 AMThat is a really good question that I pondered myself. I would assume that since so much of the faith is either based on or about the natural cycles of things that sexuality must have seemed, well err..., natural. That being said, people are people, then as then as they are today. I am sure their were some type of "rules" on what was proper or not, but I'm willing to bet with all the things they had to deal with, invaders, hunger, weather, etc... sexuality was not at the top of their list of things to be worried about. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sun, May 20, 2007 - 9:43 PM"The druids had discrete gesa (taboos) against writing things down" I would like to comment on this if I may. The popular theroy is that the Druids belived that writting somthing down would then rob it of its magic or lessen its power. This was also the reson (again popular theroy) that Druids were selected for the order at a very young afe and memorized everything, including the history of the tribe.
There is a book out titled "Druids" its a fantasy novel which does devel into the ideas of sex and sex magic. The timeline is around the time of Julius Casers conquest and occupation of Gaul, so it can be a bit heartrending. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sat, July 21, 2007 - 1:44 AMRuffells,
The ancient Druids wrote what was predominate to be passed on in lessons on leaves which were strung together. there was still a lot to be committed to memory.
Amethyst
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Thu, June 14, 2007 - 5:44 AMVery true, but then our ancestors didnt have to think about it in any sort of special way....it was a part of normal consciousness and more openly discussed than we do today.
Nature and fertility are not able to be ruled, only understood. Being Pagans...we should be able to realise this better than anyone.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sun, June 17, 2007 - 8:57 PMMy husband and I watched a show on History Channel a while back called "Sex and the Celts". It's done as a documentary. Here's the Amazon.com link: www.amazon.com/SEX-CELTS-.../B000EJ9ROW Not that I care where or if anyone wants to buy it but at least Amazon is easy to navigate. :) This guy ( www.chud.com/index.php ) did a review and I tend to agree with some of his points, for instance, they do a lot of speculation about practices in pre-historic Ireland (not specifically "The Celts") and there just isn't any written record from that time (hence the term "pre-history"). Here's another review www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/...celts.php . This guy seemed to be looking for at least soft core porn so he didn't appear to have anything good to say about it, but it's worth a read I suppose.
Hubby and I thought it was interesting anyway, but since it was on the History Channel when we saw it, we weren't expecting porn. ;) -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Thu, July 19, 2007 - 9:10 PMOnce I saw a book labeled Scottish Sensuality, but the pages were empty. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 9:14 PMNope, Welsh and Irish. LOL! -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 9:34 PMAnd Romany...and some other stuff...mostly Pangean.
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Unsu...
Re: Celtic Sexuality
Sun, July 22, 2007 - 4:28 PMFigures, what do you think we are doing on those cold Alba nights? (hee hee)
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 12:14 PMask a Nymph :)
they got all of it. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 12:23 PMthe party wasn't complete without nymphs showing up....I'll skip documentation cuz it makes sense. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 12:52 PMNymphs are Greek not Celtic. Also, Nymphs seduce men to their deaths. Not too wise of a person who'd try meddle with their affairs. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 1:26 PMabsolutey there are celtic nymphs.
and what's so bad about being seduced to death (via sirens or the like)?
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 1:28 PMCeltic Gods and Goddesses
(Anglo-Celtic, Scottish, British) Tutelary and water Goddess of ... on another she is pictured as a water nymph on a leaf, pouring water from a vessel. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 2:14 PMI can only hope that in I can find something to support that in certain rites rituals ... metamorphosis of a goddess can= a nymph ....water wood whatever...the greek/roman nymphs (sirens?)...yea they seduced men to there death via irresistible song a tale largely popularized by Homer.
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 2:15 PMwhat name? I seem to remember this reference. Although the word 'nymph' is from the Greek, the idea is called many things around the world. Water spirits have many different names. The Celtic stories are full of seducing spirits or beings that lure men, women, and children to their doom, or out of this world to the Otherworld. Some would say that was the same thing...some would argue they may be different or the same. The Merrow in the sea, the Kelpie in the lochs, and many of spirit of river, stream, and wellspring.
I feel it must be said, in defence of Greek nymphs, that they did not necessarily lure all their prey to their death. Some they let free or never attempted to ensnare. Usually those heroes in the stories who show honor, respect, and politeness are not harmed.
I love this topic by the way. Thank you. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 2:26 PMyea some were just outright lovers in both greek/roman and celtic pagan worlds.
I just cut and paste some of the "A's"....I've never been able to call a nymph a fairy...but thats just me. Also mention kobolds and brownies.
I love this topic as well.
Aibell - An Irish 'fairy' goddess.
Aine - a fairy queen in County Limerick.
Aeval - Among the Celts of Ireland, Aeval was the Fairy Queen of Munster. She held a midnight court to determine if husbands were satisfying their wives' sexual needs, or not, as the women charged.
Alfheim - in Scandinavian mythology, a celestial city inhabited by the elves and fairies.
Anjanas - Las Anjanas are typical faeries of Cantabria, there are small and nice females who sometimes appear to people like part human and part animal (usually, it's bird or fish, but it's not always fifty-fifty). Good-willing and peaceful, they can be found in woods, near small streams and that sort of quiet places.
Ati - A Maori chief who caught a lovely fairy in a net and married her. -
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Re: Celtic Sexuality
Wed, August 22, 2007 - 2:30 PMI will probable look around for info on Aeval from the above list....since it appears like it might yield info for the topic at hand.
Aeval - Among the Celts of Ireland, Aeval was the Fairy Queen of Munster. She held a midnight court to determine if husbands were satisfying their wives' sexual needs, or not, as the women charged. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Celtic Sexuality
Fri, August 24, 2007 - 9:32 AMBleh those pagans were smart to not write shit down i suppose.
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Unsu...
Re: Celtic Sexuality . . . . . ......
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:25 PMSex is overrated and diluted, making love beats it tenfold plus.
The Druids generally say abstinence from sex is best but ultimately it's your own choice.
There are many Druid orders in the UK, I'm sure some have different opinions on this matter. There are no particular rites into sex magic that I know of. The French Druid orders may embrace the sexual tendencies differently, don’t know for sure though. To be honest Celtic Sexuality doesn’t really differ to any other race creed or religion. It's just another fancy tag to play with.
Often people have issues around the base Chakra centre. Sex and Money being two main material factors of that centre.
Have Fun
N J
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Re: Celtic Sexuality . . . . . ......
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 6:15 PMWell part of the reason why I initially asked the questions was that a lot of the pagans that i know that are into BDSM also claim to follow a Celtic path. I have met a lot of Norse pagans who are into the "scene", which makes more sense to me, but I was curious what the sexuality part of it correlated to the spiritually part of it. I think this in general would make an excellent study. =) -
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Unsu...
Re: Celtic Sexuality . . . . . ......
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 11:59 AMI'd be interested to see where there Ancestral practices are traditionally from the pagan BDSM. I don’t know for sure but my guess is that the teachings may of been filtered out through cultural and surrounding influences so that the act of sacred love making becomes a lower vibration of magic.
Could be completely wrong of course but it's just a thought.
N J
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Re: Celtic Sexuality . . . . . ......
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 6:29 PMHmmm..I dunno...I think theres alot ta be said for some eerrrr alot of knock down sloppy heavy breath'n hardcore movie makeable SEX ! -
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Unsu...
Re: Celtic Sexuality . . . . . ......
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 12:11 PMIf you’re referring to porn, there is a lot to be said for it. What are you thoughts?
Personally I feel that sex is an outlet for people to waste personal energy, blokes especially.
Sometimes it's about personal insecurity for women to look and feel sexy and be size 8-10 in the westernised mindset.
I enjoy sex too but not all the time. I recommend making Love to a partner, as the feelings and experience a very different. Its might be a little harder to achieve but it’s worth the open heart of two people communicating on a different level.
It doest have to be labelle
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